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| twsottawan Thu 24th Sep 2009 11:07
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Do the Math.
My camera at red line, will record at 7 fps. With a two gig chip (Xd) I can max out with 5300 jpegs. Hypothetically I could do a full load in about 13 minutes. If the auto exposure, autofocus were in a good state of tune, all 5300 frames would be of acceptable quality. Now even with a dial up connection at 54 meg per second I could upload the full 2 gig or 5300 frames to a website for archiving or display in about 1/2 a day give or take a day, with no quota. If the limit is 200 frames a day I could put up the full 12 minutes worth of shooting in about 26.5 days. Not quite a full lunar cycle.
If these cameras are built along the lines of real race cars, one full duty cycle and the unit would have to be recycled. A bit expensive for my personal budget but if I had a sponsor I think I might be able to manage it. If equipment expenses are $600 for 15 minutes then at a minimum I think I would need about $2500 for an hour for on location shooting, not including other expenses like labour, rent, transport and other away expenses.
This kind of thing can get a bit crazy. I don't know if I should really go for it. What do you people at Fotothing think about this. Do you think my accountring methods are sound. I always had trouble with project planning and business planning when I was young.
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| GeoffReeves Thu 24th Sep 2009 14:32
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Fill your boots
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| LisaSam67 Thu 24th Sep 2009 22:49
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Originally posted by twsottawan:
$2500 for an hour for on location shooting
LMAO.... good luck getting that!
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| damansara71 Fri 25th Sep 2009 04:02
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Originally posted by twsottawan:
With a two gig chip (Xd) I can max out with 5300 jpegs
No good photographer can produce that amount of good pics per day! I wish I could!
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| twsottawan Sat 26th Sep 2009 08:56
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Originally posted by LisaSam67:
$2500 for an hour for on location shooting
Damn right. Drop a Lieca M-9 and you've got that in negative income.
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| twsottawan Sat 26th Sep 2009 09:00
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Originally posted by damansara71:
No good photographer can produce that amount of good pics per day! I wish I could!
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My camera will produce that many in 13 minutes. They will be technically good. Whether they are interesting to look at is another matter. Many FT photogs seem to produce that many in a year or two. If you want to, then there isn't much to stop you. Go for it. It is a great deal of work if you do it in a quarter of an hour or in two years.
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| twsottawan Sat 26th Sep 2009 09:09
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Geoff Reeves said "Fill your boots"
What kind of boots we be talking about here Jeffe. Not green tagged surely.
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| twsottawan Sat 26th Sep 2009 20:12
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Not to flog a dead horse here Geoff, I could offer to walk a mile in your gum boots. I think though that I already have. You can get mine at "MarksWorkWearHouse.com". Ask for the Kodiak with the steel toe and shock resist sole.
I'm hoping gentlemen can talk about foot fashion without starting a feud or a range war. I've got a Ford pickup truck with nukes all over it in my camera bag. Don't make me shoot it.
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| fourdeadpresidents Wed 7th Oct 2009 08:19
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So what your saying is you would rather take all the fotos within minutes than enjoy different places? You would rather not go out and enjoy just you and your camera? I'm not sure but I would rather go out every day for an hour or two than snap a bunch of the same image and be at the PC for the next week sorting through fotos and another week of editing.
As for the fotos I post on here? I may only post a tenth of what I actually shoot.
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| twsottawan Wed 7th Oct 2009 16:45
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Originally posted by fourdeadpresidents:
So what your saying is you would rather take all the fotos within minutes than enjoy different places?
Duh, Why do in a few years what you can do in 13 minutes or one lunar cycle if you include processing and uploading. It's quick and dirty photography. You can enjoy different places, as well or perhaps better, with or without a camera. If you shoot for quantity then a rapid burst for several minutes can do the job as well as snapping single frames for a longer period.
While it seems to be the custom to only write a response to an outstanding question from another forum user, I have attempted to respond to the implicit question of why so many Fotothing users upload and shoot so many photos; far beyond what other users or the public can look at in a reasonable amount of time, far beyond what a commercial assignment would require of a professional photographer and far beyond what would constitute the requirements of photographic training or education.
The readership for this stream of posts was intended to be the chronically photo addicted, all others and you know who you are, can disregard them.
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| PhotoPro PRO Wed 7th Oct 2009 19:03
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Originally posted by twsottawan:
If you shoot for quantity then a rapid burst for several minutes can do the job as well as snapping single frames for a longer period.
Really?
At 7 fps how many different items can you shoot over the course of the 5300? Without blur and in focus? If the answer is > 1, I would love to see some of these consecutive shots of multiple items with the exif info to prove the timing.
Sounds like you're talking about a video camera - you could average 25-30 fps, getting a whole lot more than just a digital camera (or even a camera with video capabilities).
[edit] (for those who don't know you can go back and add to or remove from a previous Forum comment of your own)
Originally posted by twsottawan:
What do you people at Fotothing think about this.
Originally posted by twsottawan:
The readership for this stream of posts was intended to be the chronically photo addicted, all others and you know who you are, can disregard them.
I either missed this last line, or you edited and added it while I was responding.
I don't know how you define "chronically photo addicted", but I do know who I am.
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| fourdeadpresidents Wed 7th Oct 2009 19:15
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Originally posted by twsottawan:
training or education.
What's that??? Never been and never will. I have a project coming up at the race track I would give my left nut to get 5300 fotos. I go by the trial and error approach along with the pros tips on this site and other sites.
I think we all agree that that many fotos of one subject is... well. stupid... period. Obviously you don't even try to enjoy photography. There's more to it than just going out and take some pictures. There's the joy of being out and about and getting "that shot". There's being out in the woods listening to mother nature and maybe getting 10 shots in one sitting but it's better to be out there enjoying life. Photography is a great part of my life and it's your opinion to say that you can do this and not worry about anything else for a few years.
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| twsottawan Thu 8th Oct 2009 11:51
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Originally posted by fourdeadpresidents:
I think we all agree that that many fotos of one subject is... well. stupid... period.
Thanks for your comment.
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| damansara71 Sat 10th Oct 2009 03:17
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Originally posted by fourdeadpresidents:
I go by the trial and error approach along with the pros tips on this site and other sites.
i started in FT too.The only reason I got stuck here. Peeking frm exif & composition. I think Manny improves a lot too.
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| twsottawan Wed 14th Oct 2009 01:18
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Originally posted by LisaSam67:
$2500 for an hour for on location shooting
LMAO.... good luck getting that!
In fact I have no ambition to get that. I am not the least bit interested in doing photography "professionally" or commercially. But for those who are interested or have the ambition the following might be of interest.
Most photographers guard information about how much they charge their commercial clients and even their customers from among the public, jealously for reasons of competition. Without divulging exact amounts the following is some consideration of what factors enter into estimating a photographic fee for an hour of camera work.
Two thousand five-hundred dollars (CAD) gross for an hour of on location camera work is actually not a matter for LYAO. In fact no photographer earns this much 8/5/52. But unless you have a few days of the year where you earn that much for a gig that amounts to one hour of camera work then you are not likely to stay solvent as a photographic business person.
In fact that one hour of camera work will likely require one or more days of preparation and will cover a subset of the following possible expenses:
Car Rental for one day.
Specialty Photographic Equipment Rental
Lighting Equipment Rental
Assistant Photographer Fees or wages.
Fees for one or more photographic models who appear in the photo.
Makeup Artist
Hair Stylist
Materials for set construction
Labour for set construction
Costume Rental Purchase or Manufacture
Gratuities for use of a location or rental
Parking
Lunch for personnel involved in the production
Photographic Lab Work and Printing
Digital Editing and Special Effects
Miscellaneous Props and Accessories used in the photograph, rental or purchase.
Some simple research into the exact costs of these or other items of expenditure will give a more exact figure in your location and it will reveal that $2500 is not an unreasonable amount. This comes from my experience of commercial photography of several decades ago. In todays market I doubt that there are many clients who are willing to pay this sort of amount, when every business person or every member of the public has a nephew or knows the friend of a friend who has a digital camera and takes very professional pictures. Not many of these nephews and friends are financially self sustaining photographers.
In practice a photographic fee to a customer can be in the range of $0 to several thousand dollars. If it is zero or close to it ie. less than $500 CAD or USD, no matter what the expenses are, the photographer is clearly working at a loss. A simple accounting of expenses will detail its nature. If the only entry in this accounting is for one hour of time, then you as a business person need to develop your business skills, knowledge and experience as well as develop some insight into financial and business accounting.
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| damansara71 Fri 16th Oct 2009 18:01
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Still doint it more as a hobby! Satisfaction getting nice images & knowledge = priceless! I understand yr frustration in digital era. Here is the same too. Good photos Vs graphic illustrations
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| LisaSam67 Mon 19th Oct 2009 20:55
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Originally posted by PhotoPro:
I don't know how you define "chronically photo addicted"
That would be those of us with way too many pictures uploaded. I'll go back to my knitting circle now twat!
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| LisaSam67 Mon 19th Oct 2009 21:06
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Originally posted by spideyj:
Looking back at my archive it is amazing how much my work has progressed over the last year and that is mainly down to everyone on the site that has viewed, left comments or added my images to their favourites. It has really encouraged me to progress and experiment with different techniques. So a big thankyou to you all, it is really appreciated!
http://forum.fotothing.com/topic/3856/
Interesting timing that I came across this after commenting on this thread. This is how I feel about FT and the progression of my photography too. This is why I used to post so much and this is why it's all here still.
This is my diary.
This is my circle of friends.
Use FT the way you see fit and let us do the same please.
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| twsottawan Mon 19th Oct 2009 22:12
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Originally posted by LisaSam67:
Use FT the way you see fit and let us do the same please.
You are free to do as you wish. If I state my opinion, I do not make it mandatory to conform to it or agree with it. If everyone is in agreement, then there is nothing to say. Should I apologize for not being unconditionally "positive" and uncritical.
The adage that working smart, is better than working hard, applies to photography as well as it does to manual labour.
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| megmet PRO Mon 19th Oct 2009 22:39
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Originally posted by twsottawan:
The adage that working smart, is better than working hard, applies to photography
But with your philosophy there is no skill and most certainly no fun involved, we may as well go buy a postcard of what we see!
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